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About trading bitcoin for GBP...

I’ve noticed the same questions begin asked in BitcoinUK/ again and again. I’ve some experience of trading cryptos in the uk, so here’s a brain dump of what I’ve learned.
BE WARNED: things change quickly and this stuff will be out of date before long. I’m writing in August 2017, by November it’ll all be different
BE WARNED: don’t take any of the below as fact - it is opinion, my opinion, and you don’t know me, I could be a crazy person. Check your shit before you do anything.
Transferring funds to an exchange
The cheapest (and sometimes only) way to transfer funds to an exchange is via an international bank transfer (sometimes called bank wire). Each exchange has its own quirks, you need to do a bit of research before you begin. Most exchanges that have GBP markets will not have UK bank accounts (none possibly), even if they’re based in the UK. I’m not sure why - some are UK registered companies and are based in London, but still don’t have UK bank accounts. It seems weird but it’s quite common. I can only assume the crappy UK banking system refused them business. Don’t be afraid of international bank transfers, they aren’t necessarily difficult or expensive.
So, some things to check for you start transferring your hard earned cash…
Be patient. What you will find is that the 1st international payment you make to any one exchange takes a long time. If they say something like “up to 5 working days”, it will be at least 5 working days. After that first one is out of the way payments can arrive same day, within a couple of hours sometimes. However, note that the international banking system shuts down for the weekend. From experience, if you need to make a payment on Friday, make sure you make it before 10am on friday morning else it’ll be stuck until monday. I think the bankers basically go to the pub for lunch on Friday, forget their way back, and just stumble into another pub.
If you want to make a payment via a debit card, thats also possible on some exchanges. Same set of warnings apply as above; make sure you understand the fees, the exchange rates and the timescales. They almost all have a link from their homepage to their fees page. If an exchange isn’t clear about their fees don’t use them, simple as that.
If you’ve found an exchange that doesn’t seem to have a KYC (Know Your Customer) policy and will let you transfer funds without any sort of ID check, don’t do it. Don’t be tempted to use them because it feels like an easy option. STAY AWAY. Similarly if they don’t offer 2FA, don’t use them. Make sure you activate 2FA immediately, like the very first thing you do after registering. I believe the current advice is not to use Authy, but to use Google Authenticator (despite how shit it is). Also, turn on email login notifications (despite how annoying they are).
The Non-banks (Transferwsie, Revolute etc)
As far as I know exchanges will typically not accept payments from these “non-bank” entities. It’s due to their KYC and AML (Anti Money Laundering) policies. The problem is that the money you transfer will go to (or come from) a bank account that isn’t in your name, which just isn’t allowed any more, and for good reason.
I know that Transferwise now offers a personal EURO account which comes with it’s own IBAN. And I think Revolute offers both personal GBP and EURO accounts (although the euro IBAN just doesn’t work at all). But I don’t know if those accounts are in your name and the banking level, I suspect not. I’d be really interested to know if anyone has successfully transferred funds to or from an exchange to one of these “non-banks”. I know that some exchanges have explicit policies against these organisations and say that they will reject your payment, which will cost you time and no doubt money.
Interestingly, Revolute is becoming a crypto currency exchange soon. More on that another day maybe.
Transferring funds from an exchange
Same principals as above really - do your research first; check the fees, check the exchange rates and expect the first ever payment to be VERY, VERY slow, like super slow, more than 5 working days, weeks maybe (i’m not joking). I’ve noticed that payments from an exchange to my bank account will almost always take longer than payments from my bank account to an exchange do. Also, an intermediary bank may be involved (what ever that is), and they’ll help yourself to some of your money on its way through, so don’t necessarily expect it all to turn up. How much do they take? No one seems to know - check the small print, or don’t bother because it won’t say.
After your first withdrawal from an exchange, international bank payments to and from some exchanges can happen same day.
The Non-banks
Making a payment from an exchange to something other than a bank isn’t something I can comment on. I am trialling Crypto Capital, on the surface it seems like a good service, but will refrain from giving my opinion just yet.
The exchanges
I’ll limit this bit to those exchanges I’ve found that have GBP/crypto markets…
** ANXPRO - rating: 3/10 Based in HongKong. In summary - expensive, slow, a bit crap, but sometimes with good prices.
From time to time good prices can be found on ANX for selling BTC for GBP. You can’t deposit funds though, you can only withdraw. So for buying BTC with GBP you might as well forget them, but for selling it can be worth while.
The BTC/GBP market is not very liquid as you might expect for a Honk Hong market trading GBPs and the large spread can sometimes mean crappy prices. I have seen good prices here, but not often.
Withdrawing funds typically takes exactly 5 working days (occasionally it’s 2 but that’s rare). Often a bit of money disappears on its way (12GBP last time I checked) due to those pesky “intermediary banks”. Their withdrawal fee’s are high but are easy to understand and calculate.
The trading fee is I think the highest I’ve seen (0.6% last time I checked) for market takers, but less for market makers. I guess they’re trying to encourage market making… although their market maker fee isn’t great either. And there are no discounts available for high volume traders.
They have a reasonable API, and the exchange doesn’t seem to suffer from many planned or unplanned outages.
Their support is also reasonable, they usually reply within a couple of days which is WAY better than most.
My confidence in the exchange in general isn’t high at all. Sometimes crypto deposits simply don’t arrive (I’m not joking). If you’re a busy trader making lots of crypto funds movements, make sure you check that each and every transfer has arrived. If funds don’t arrive you have to raise a support ticket, maybe include a link to show the crypto network transaction taking place, and some days later your funds will appear. Red flag? You bet.
Their AML processes were ok as I recall.
** Kraken - rating 2/10 Based in Japan. In summary - a bit pointless.
Possibly I shouldn’t have included Kraken here as they’ve just delisted their GBP markets (temporarily maybe). Interestingly they did this by giving ZERO notice to their customers which is a bit unforgivable.
Their technology is clearly appalling. The website is crazy slow, sometimes unreachable, weirdly designed (IMO) and just not that easy to use - mostly because it’s so slow. They have an ok API but it’s completely unresponsive at times. It’s not uncommon to get errors when placing orders so you’ve no idea if the order was placed or not, same goes for cancelling orders, order books can take minutes down download and are basically fictional. Red flag? Oh yes.
GBP deposits are cheap (10GBP last time i checked), and from memory quite fast, I think I’ve had them arrive same day. Maybe the Japanese banking system actually works? Withdrawals aren’t so cheap though (60GBP I think) and not very fast, certainly not same day.
Support is not great, but ok I guess. I feel like responses come in 3 to 5 days, and they actually attempt to answer your question.
Their KYC/AML process is very thorough. There are 4 levels of verification, it like a shit game.
Their trading fees are reasonable and they do have discounts for high volume traders.
** CEX.IO - rating 7/10 Based in the UK I think. In summary - the best place to buy crypto currencies with GBP (IMO!).
GBP bank transfers to the exchange are free, and they support Crypto Capital which is also free for inbound transfers. You can also deposit GBP via a VISA or master card, although it’s very expensive (I wouldn’t bother personally) but I assume much faster than a bank transfer. Their bank isn’t UK based so its another international transfer and takes the usual amount of time (i.e. some days).
GBP bank withdrawals are also cheap (30GBP), they even offer a withdrawal to a VISA debit card for only 2.90GBP. They do have strict limits on what can be withdrawn though, so if you’re a big trader it may not be suitable, (I think its suitable only for small time traders). Strangely they charge 1% for crypto capital withdrawals which makes no sense. I’ve checked the Crypto Capital fees page and can’t fathom why CEX have chosen to add this fee, it seems crazy.
As mentioned above, your first withdrawal to a bank account (or other payment provider) will take FOREVER, like two weeks or more. They don’t really explain this adequately in my opinion.
They have a small number of markets (BTC, BCH and ETH) but are expanding these slowly. And you can trade with other FIAT currencies as well.
Support is bad. Slow to reply, and you’ll get a stock response. Almost no effort is made to answer your question. Time between replies is several days if you get one at all.
The API is good, the website is fairly easy to understand, responsive and uptime is excellent.
Their KYC/AML process is very thorough. Weirdly I’ve had to do it twice, the second time was via email which didn’t feel at all secure. Why are the exchanges still using email for this stuff?
Their trading fees are reasonable but they don’t have any sort of discounts for high volume traders.
*** Coinbank - rating 5/10 Based in… well that’s unclear - Scotland? Belize? In summary - crazy high fees.
Deposit fees for GBP are actually zero, but withdrawal fees are way too high for both FIAT and crypto currencies. Any exchange that charges percentages for withdrawal fees (as opposed to a fixed value) should be treated with great caution. Trading fee’s are also very high.
As usual, their bank isn’t UK based so you’re looking at days to make a deposit, and many days to make a withdrawal, but as you’ve probably realised by now that seems to be the norm.
Their API is ok (the order book appears to be partly fictional) and the last time I checked the API was changing - maybe they’re still building it. The website is fine I guess. It’s quick enough and doesn’t seem to suffer from that much of planned or unplanned downtime. I don’t like dark backgrounds though and I don’t think you can change it, but that’s just me.
They don’t have many markets but do support most major crypto currencies. Interestingly they have some pure FIAT/FIAT markets which is something I’m beginning to see more of. The GBP markets aren’t very liquid either, so sometimes the spread is high which means the prices are pretty uncompetitive. Occasionally though someone comes in with a massive order so you’ll maybe get lucky and get a good deal.
It’s a while since I used their support (i’ve stopped trading because of the fees), but I recall it wasn’t great. My last ticket ended with something like ”a member of the tech team will get back to you”, and that’s the last I heard from them.
They appeared to have adequate KCY/AML procedures. They don’t offer any discounts for high volume traders.
** Coinfloor - rating 6/10
Based in the UK (but you guessed it, with an overseas bank account). In summary - a good all round exchange!
I think they pride them selves on their security and suitability for being regulated (and I hope the succeed). I like coinfloor.
They have a slightly unusual business model in my opinion. They charge a deposit fee and a withdrawal fee, but they don’t charge a trading fee. It didn’t used to be the case, and I guess may not be in the future. The fee’s are competitive though, certainly not high.
Support is excellent, probably the best I’ve encountered. Someone usually responds same day and they even read your question and attempt to be helpful with their answer. Amazing.
The website is a pretty basic no frills affair. It certainly won’t make your laptop sound like a hovercraft unlike some. One thing to mention is that you can only withdraw crypto funds to a single wallet (per currency) and that wallet must be a personal wallet and not one on another exchange. I doubt they can enforce where that wallet is, but it certainly against their usage policy.
Until recently you could only trade BTC here, but they’ve now added support for more currencies. They didn’t do it very well though, you can’t withdraw the new currencies, and they aren’t supported by the API.
The website has suffered from some long outages which were definitely unplanned. The API is mostly good though, stable, reliable and easy to use.
They do have discounts for high volume traders and their KYC/AML procedures were good as I recall.
** GDAX (aka Coinbase) - rating 5/10
I wasn’t going to mention GDAX because GBP deposits aren’t an option. However, as it’s such a large exchange it’s worth mentioning. In summary - good but a bit pointless.
GDAX does have one GBP market but getting into it isn’t very easy. You can’t deposit GBP funds into the exchange but you can sell BTC for GBP, sometimes at good prices too. You can register a UK bank account but using it is complicated - better to look at their docs rather than have me do an bad explanation. Ultimately, if you send them GBPs I think you’ll be credited with EUROs.
The fee’s are ok (but complicated), their technology is good. I don’t recall their KYC/AML procedures.
They have 2 websites confusingly; GDAX is aimed at traders and Coinbase is aimed at people who want to occasionally buy and sell. I guess Coinbase is just a simple front end for GDAX. The API is the best I’ve seen.
They have discounts for high volume traders.
In summary
I’m sure there are other GBP markets out there, and I’ll update this post when I have an opinion on them. For now though, if you want to buy crypto currencies for GBP, you best bet in my opinion is You’ll find good prices, good market depth, a small spread and enough currencies to get you started. Support is crap (but that’s the norm), but both deposits and withdrawals are cheap and reliable, you just need to be patient. If you aren’t patient however they at least have an expensive & fast option for you and that is to buy with your debit card.
submitted by fakeyfaky to BitcoinUK [link] [comments]

All new beta version of is open for public!

Click here to go to the beta site!
Updates March 29th:
Holy shibe time goes fast when you're busy. I haven't done anything since last update, sorry. I'll try and squeeze some time in this weekend to add at least Prelude to the beta site. Can't promise more than that.
Updates March 15th:
Been very busy recently so I haven't had a lot of time to work on the site. Most functions should be running well atm. Here's the top of my todo list as of now:
Hey everyone! I've been blown away by the amount of traffic coming to my site the past couple of months. This is definitely my most visited website by far. The site has been very static since early January though. As I've hinted on in the old thread, this is because I've been working on a new version of the site. It's taken way longer than I expected it to, but now it's at a point where I think it can be released to the public.
Some stats since the 14th December release:
  • 2,000,000+ pageviews
  • 1,000,000+ visits
  • 156,000+ unique visitors
And now on to the features of the new site:
  • Much faster updates, being pushed to your browser as the trades come through, instead of your browser querying for new updates every few seconds.
  • Live view of orderbook, in both DOGE and BTC
  • Convert to more currencies! Currently supporting USD, SEK and PLN, please request other exchanges/currencies to add if you want them.
  • Currency conversions now update live and save between sessions
  • Candlestick charts! Oh yes.
  • Interact with the charts (zoom and drag!)
  • Live updates of dogecoin statistics: block, difficulty and hashrate.
  • Volume bars
  • Exponential moving average and simple moving average.
  • Price alerts! (Currently only works using Chrome notifications)
Some questions that I assume you guys might have:
Where did the other exchanges go?
I did not prioritize adding these exchanges because the volume is so low and trades happen so rarely. They're not as fun to watch. I will be adding more exchanges as the code gets more lightweight. For now, they still exist on the old site at least.
Why no more pretty dogecoin ads?
I'm just trying out Google Adsense to see how profitable it can be (compared to dogecoin services). Still have not decided whether it stays.
Wow this looks a lot like Bitcoinwisdom
I know. In fact, when I built the foundation it was very inspired by Bitcoinwisdom, just like the old version was by Bitcoinity. These are both awesome sites that I use all the time. As I was working on the site, Bitcoinwisdom released their DOGE graphs. There wasn't really a point to stop working though so I decided to keep it this way, cause I just like it the way it looks. Since then I've been aiming at making it the best of both worlds, taking inspiration from many different chart sites to get the best experience out there.
Vault of Satoshi, please?
I've been looking into adding VoS since they started DOGE trading. Unfortunately their API lacks one important feature, which means I can't add a graph. Sorry.
Kraken, please?
Kraken has already been added and is coming live on the site once I've worked out some bugs!
Why can't we see data older than [date]??
Older data was collected using different methods. It can kind of be converted to work in the new charts but it won't be as accurate. I will definitely be doing this in the near future anyway. Bter has an awesome API, so I was able to download all the data since they opened for DOGE trading. You can go on the Bter graph if you want to see December data for now.
Where are the DOGE/DOGE charts?
Coming soon.
Use this reddit post for features, questions, bug reports, whatever. Just post below. :)
Click here to go to the beta site!
submitted by byteyotta to dogecoin [link] [comments]

[META] I am still wondering why the prices are so high.

ALTHOUGH THIS HAS AN "ANGRY" TONE, I'D LIKE MY MIND TO BE CHANGED ON THIS, POSSIBLY WITH THE SAME "CYNICAL/SARCASTIC" TONE, not with a shitload of downvotes and with rich people yelling at me. I truly love the fact that we have exchanges built on trust, person to person. Dogemarket has been my only way of buying dogecoins and I'm starting trading just now. So:
Looking at the number of dislikes and likes in the comments of the [META] post explaining the prices, there is a clear tendecy of conserving the right to set whatever price big sellers want. You don't agree? Have a downvote, a "ignorant" label and kick out of the market. Llet me sell my shit at my own price. This is lobby behaving. In the risks list, include how much you made from selling dogecoin at at least 30% the market price. Let's say you actually get that bitcoin: 1 BTC today from justcoin is about 500€; yesterday almost the same (+10-) Go to cryptsy (I'd go to vircurex, but let's stick to your case) and trade it for: 366,789 doge (right now). How much are 360,000 doge? Right now 445€, make it 440 to make it round. So 60€ to go even: about 15% (1.41€) more of the price on the lot will break even. From there up it's all in your pocket. How much is 30% of the price more? It's 70€ on 1 BTC you bought. So let's see what's on the market... 500k at 2.5$/k, which is 50%, 50% more than the price 5hrs ago (when it was posted). Well we know our numbers. How much is in the pocket of the seller? We're in luck! 5 hrs ago the price was still about (20€ more 4 hours behind those 5 I considered and vox allows 2,3h BTC transactions) 500€/BTC and dogecoin was again at 270 satoshi. We'll keep numbers high, although it is probable OP bought at less than 240 satoshi. It brings us again at about 1.41€ to break even: 705€ for 502,000Ð or 1.356 BTC at 520€/BTC, 260satoshi/DOGE. Woop woop we have at least 900€ cashed in with that 35% more!. Meh, 200€ every 2 or 3 days (assuming this isn't daily) and you complain about losing say 500€ every month? Fuck me that's still 1900€ per month at the rhythm I supposed. I understand the risk of BTC is rising fast seen the shit is happening. But hey, there's still Litecoin and a lot of other ways to buy dogecoin. I could even buy from you at 30% and then then sell immediatly after at 50%. I have not taken in account the dogecoin price oscillation! If anybody bought dogecoins when they were under 200 satoshi and selling them now at 30% more the ACTUAL price... shit... What am I studying for?
One final thought. Not everybody loses stuff. There are merchants that have bad luck like you, but for the rest there is no excuse. Being this a free market, you can sell whatever you want at the price you want and if there is someone buying, you'll keep selling. I don't think sellers that keep selling are in red. Honestly, If I had enough money, I'd mine my dogecoins and sell them at 110% the current price. I hope I will find a solution to this. P.S. How can you guys think PayPal and Amazon don't notice all that money entering?!? P.P.S Why don't you cut your transactions in little pieces, say 10,000 doges at a time? P.P.P.S. I really hope you understand I am a simple shibe. So if I made terrible mistakes in my reasoning, point them out; I'll bow my head and keep my journey.
TL;DR the prices in here are high enough to get most of the times about 15% back of the initial investment, if not more. Being for a lot of people entering dogecoin culture the first place to look at, /dogemarket should point more at spreading doge than squeezing out money at 30/40/50% of the actual price.
EDIT: TL;DR, format Edit2: how can you downvote? I see no blue arrow... - RES, okay Edit3: please see smuttr answer and mine below his/hers for the proof of my TL;DR Edit4: I get it: free market. People pay what they pay. So wake up, paying people. Meh... I haven't written all this to complain. Who should I complain with anyway? And you people talk, with 74 upvotes on a post about someone who chose the wrong website to buy bitcoin. What's that called again? Actually this post was just an answer to this one: Because I felt it was a little unfair how the voting system was hiding people trying to dissent with OP. I also wanted to make a couple of calculations to understand where actually the money goes in a 150% actual price transaction.
Edit5, final edit: The conclusion to this is that whoever thinks the prices are too damn high and tries to QUESTION, not complain, question why is that so, can go buy somewhere else. I'm happy you folks helped me with this. At least buyers will now know who they are dealing with. I profoundly thank smuttr for changing my mind on what the base price to calculate one's profit margin should be. Although I don't consider the incapacity of finding better instruments of exchange an excuse to charge more. As far as I see now: -Miners ride the wave of prices. Can't really say much... calculate the break even on the actual price of altcoins, so for miners selling here, it will arrive 30% faster. -Traders are bound to this formula (that doesn't consider about oscillations, problems, risk...) : Investment / {'['(' {[(Investment - Wire)/BTCcost]exchange fee} /DOGEcost ')exchange fee'] -1'} /1000 Which with, for example Anxpro (it's the only one I know about right now), quickly collapse to I / {[(I-W)/BTCc] /DOGEc} / 1000. As you see the only variables in this one are I and W and, numbers in hand, the % of W in respect to I is what weights on the initial premium. So: [(I-W)/I - 1] is a constant factor to be considered in every price, until there will be no cost in bank transfer. In my example below is 2% and I honestly think it doesn't go above 5-7%. This means I>=200$ and W=15$. For fun, The exchange fees are to be accounted as they are. So now we have the IW + exBTC + exDOGE. I refuse to take in account the movement fees because they are plain stupid.
REAL TL;DR from the prices you see, you should account that about 3% is a real cost.
submitted by HeartBalloon to dogemarket [link] [comments]

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Skip navigation Sign in. Search HOW TO DAY-TRADE CRYPTO COINS FOR MASSIVE DAILY PROFITS - STEP BY STEP GUIDE - Duration: 15:41. Crypto Oracle 406,119 views